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Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 14:31:24 No.648345698 View View Reply Original Report

Quoted By: >>648346020 >>648346527 >>648346804 >>648347587 >>648348307 >>648350576 >>648350896 >>648353082 >>648353752 >>648355244 >>648355913 >>648365733 >>648366119 >>648368136

teleportation
>anon disappears on pod 'a'
>anon appears on pod 'b'
how to check if it is really anon and not a copy?

no retarded philosophical answer such as 'but if it has the same looks and thoughts then it is anon'

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 14:34:22 No.648346020 Report

Quoted By: >>648346350

>>648345698
is the copy a 1:1 at time like same scars or tattoos. Or is the copy only genetic and doesn't take scars/tattoos in to consideration. If not then you have your answer above, scars or tattoos.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 14:37:21 No.648346350 Report

Quoted By: >>648346790

>>648346020
yeah, looks are the same (clothing, tatoos, shit in the bowels)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 14:39:11 No.648346527 Report

Quoted By: >>648346710

>>648345698

The person going into the teleporter dies and is replaced by a 1:1 copy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 14:40:59 No.648346710 Report

Quoted By: >>648347371 >>648358125

>>648346527
assuming the machine actually worked and it was not a clone, how would we differentiate it from a clone?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 14:41:41 No.648346790 Report

Quoted By: >>648371190

>>648346350
the only other thing I can think of would be personal shit and if the copy knew everything the person does then someone close to the copied person would have to feel something not right.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 14:41:48 No.648346804 Report

Quoted By: >>648347196

>>648345698
Would it have the same memories if it was a clone?

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 14:44:43 No.648347118 Report

Quoted By: >>648347243

If you're basically disassembled and then rebuilt atom-by-atom, it's technically a clone that appears in pod 'b'.

It will most likely have the same memories, the same personality and so on, but would it be the same person enjoying the cartesian theatre, I wouldn't know. Only the person being teleported would.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 14:45:23 No.648347196 Report

Quoted By: >>648347608

>>648346804
yes.
there's two situations:
A)anon died, replaced by clone
B)anon didn't die, actually teleported

how can we logically differentiate those, given that the clone would also claim to be anon

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 14:45:57 No.648347243 Report

Quoted By: >>648365866

>>648347118
Kill him just to be safe.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 14:47:09 No.648347371 Report

Quoted By: >>648358457

>>648346710

There would be no measureable differences between the person entering and the person exiting, if you ask him at the B end how the teleporting was he would probably swear to u that he didnt die and everything was fine. But it all really depends on how the machine actually works. If the person on the entering side is disassembled and then re-assembled somewhere else, well, then he's dead

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 14:47:19 No.648347386 Report

Quoted By: >>648370649

i dont think that memories will last in a disassabling - assambling process

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 14:49:09 No.648347587 Report

Quoted By: >>648348000 >>648348052 >>648348154 >>648348262

>>648345698
>no retarded philosophical answers

How do you answer a question about consciousness without getting philosophical?

We don't practically know what makes up a "person" (to the extent that we haven't mastered neuroscience completely), teleportation is as much dying as going to bed is dying. Your neural makeup changes as you sleep and you wake up a different person than yesterday, everyday.

Teleportation, assuming it's a perfect reconstruction, will rebuild you in a more perfect way than sleep does, essentially. If you are merely the collection of electrical impulses and their physical network in your brain, a perfect replication could set your brain up to be exactly as it was before and "you" (that doesn't really exist) would be as much "you", if not more, as when you go to sleep and wake up.

But no, by default you are a copy after teleportation. You've transferred information to a new location.

Technically, if you're theorizing about say, wormholes, you'd essentially not be teleporting but just moving through distorted space, just as you move through normal space without "teleporting".

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 14:49:19 No.648347608 Report

Quoted By: >>648348398 >>648350850

>>648347196

We wouldn't really be able do differentiate, but we could experiment on how the machine actually worked, could there be for example made 2 or more copies of the teleported person? Assuming the machine knows how to store a human body as information and re-assemble it then we could easily make more copies of the person. Or could we build in a time delay and let the person be re assembled a day later?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 14:52:37 No.648348000 Report

Quoted By:

>>648347587
This

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 14:53:02 No.648348052 Report

Quoted By: >>648348536

>>648347587

except for the fact that your body doesn't get disassembled into a stream of information and the re assembled at another location every time you sleep. Sleep is still a continuum and while your neural pathways change while sleeping I'm guess its something entirely different if you are stored in an information stream and sent to another location while being teleported

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 14:53:30 No.648348108 Report

Quoted By:

Can you explain the mechanism a bit more in depth than goes in at A comes out at B...
Are we doing the Star Trek thing of deconstruction/transfer/reconstruction thing, or the wormhole type of thing? Will the transfer take time? Can you communicate with anon during transport or send data from probes? I Need more stuff to work with...

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 14:53:57 No.648348154 Report

Quoted By: >>648348536

>>648347587
Going to bed does not kill you and replace you by a clone. Gradual change of atoms or electrical patterns is not even close to what teleportation suggests.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 14:54:56 No.648348262 Report

Quoted By:

>>648347587
Also, if your definition of "same person" is an individual actor that perceives and so on (with an unbroken chain of consciousness as a required condition) then no, you will never be the "same person" after waking up because there's a technical disconnect when disassembling and reassembling, even if you reassemble using the exact same atoms as you consisted of before.

Thing is, by this logic, you also die every time you go to sleep or get knocked out.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 14:55:17 No.648348307 Report

Quoted By:

>>648345698
If you don't want to talk philosophy then it's fucking easy, OP. They're not the real anon, they're a copy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 14:56:02 No.648348398 Report

Quoted By:

>>648347608
suppose it can be stored for indefinite time if that helps you, but there can be only one of anon's body.
if there were more than 1 anon I'd say the question is pretty much answered.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 14:57:13 No.648348536 Report

Quoted By: >>648348895

>>648348052
>>648348154

Unless you believe that your consciousness somehow lives on in your atoms, it's merely a case of the Ship of Theseus. What is the difference between going to bed/getting knocked out and waking up, and going to bed, being disassembled and then waking up?

Why is sleep a continuum of consciousness?

Even if I were to agree with that, sleep is merely one example, what about when you're simply knocked unconscious? Do you die, and whomever wakes up is another person?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:00:12 No.648348895 Report

Quoted By: >>648349058

>>648348536
No, you obviously don't die. Dead people start decaying, there observable processes dead people go through. In the teleport case you can't make such observation

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:01:38 No.648349058 Report

Quoted By: >>648349258 >>648349704

>>648348895
A person doesn't decay if they're disintegrated into their component atoms. The point is they're destroyed at one point and reconstructed at the other.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:02:54 No.648349203 Report

Quoted By:

They're potatoes

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:03:23 No.648349258 Report

Quoted By: >>648349464

>>648349058
yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:05:07 No.648349464 Report

Quoted By: >>648349714

>>648349258
You don't think a person dies if they're disintegrated?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:07:10 No.648349704 Report

Quoted By: >>648350006

>>648349058
Suppose you teleport someone by reassembling a body but in the last second you don't disassemble the last pieces of information (a nerve impulse in the brain), but then without turning it into a stream of information, you construct a system that allows for the physical transfer of this impulse into the new body as the final component.

Is the person still alive? Because you created a physical system that allowed the transfer of that last nerve impulse just as if it continued to move within the original brain. Would that constitute a continuum of consciousness for you?

If not, how many nerve impulses would it take? Half of them? All of them at once? Is the sum of "you" your nerve impulses, and your brain merely a structure that shapes what "you" can be?

Suppose you create a body and then create a system that physically transfers all of those impulses into your brain as they were, are you still you? There's no disconnect then, right?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:07:19 No.648349714 Report

Quoted By:

>>648349464
yes, dude, that's what I responded to #8536
as far as I'm concerned they died
I wouldn't step into a teleporter unless someone shows me a logical way for an observer to distinguish 'anon' from a clone

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:09:40 No.648349956 Report

Quoted By: >>648350281

Teleportation doesn't teleport, it merely kills the conscience of the first and births a new one. The new one will be merely a copy, but the first one is dead.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:10:12 No.648350006 Report

Quoted By: >>648350280 >>648350592

>>648349704
These are two distinct organisms. OP said he didn't want to get philisophical. We're not talking about the continuum of consciousness or anything. He just wants to know "are these to people the same person" and the answer is no. They're made of different atoms, separated by space and time

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:12:06 No.648350204 Report

Quoted By:

have person carry an authentication key. numerical digits should match with server side.
think mmo authentication keys but more hitech

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:13:00 No.648350280 Report

Quoted By: >>648350497

>>648350006
OP here
suppose the machine actually worked, it really is anon on pod 'b', not a clone.
how can an observer conclude it?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:13:01 No.648350281 Report

Quoted By: >>648350497 >>648350860

>>648349956
Consciousness isn't even a meaningful empirical concept. All outside observations confirm that the person is exactly the same in terms of psychology. And the person who steps out of the teleporter believes they stepped into another teleporter somewhere else a few seconds ago. "Consciousness" is just new age bullshit manifested by our instinct for self-preservation.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:13:30 No.648350334 Report

Quoted By: >>648350720

Depends, if the soul doesn't obey the laws of physics, then even transferring the exact same body (not copying) would kill that person or make it a zombie.
I wouldn't care if it kills and copy the person, if your family got replaced by other people with the same body, thoughts and practically are an exact copy, there is no way you can know and won't affect anything, some people just make a big deal of being "the one" or "the original"

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:14:48 No.648350497 Report

Quoted By:

>>648350280
I said it here:
>>648350281
Consciousness continuity is not an empirically verifiable trait in an organism.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:15:28 No.648350576 Report

Quoted By:

>>648345698
You can't; it's impossible to distinguish between particles of the same type i.e all electrons look the same.
There is a theorem, though, stating that it's impossible to perfectly replicate a state.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-cloning_theorem

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:15:35 No.648350592 Report

Quoted By: >>648350860 >>648351285

>>648350006
>These are two distinct organisms.

> He just wants to know "are these to people the same person" and the answer is no. They're made of different atoms, separated by space and time

No they are not distinct organisms. They can just as well be the same atoms (although using new atoms would definitely make teleportation an actual practical application), physically moved to a new places, and in this latter example, the same electrical impulses transferred into this new system (body).

OP doesn't want to get philosophical, but defining "you" or "same person" requires that he either states a definition or that we get philosophical to answer it.

In this latter example there is an unbroken chain of consciousness. I couldn't tell you what the experience would be like, moving "you" (the sum of your nerve impulses) through an artificial system into your new, identical brain, but the continuum is there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:16:50 No.648350720 Report

Quoted By:

>>648350334
Kind of like the episode of rick and morty where they go to the new universe and move in with an exact copy of their own family. Case in point: how many episodes did it take for you to completely forget about that fact and accept this new family as the 'true' family?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:18:05 No.648350850 Report

Quoted By:

>>648347608
this happened in an episode of the original series of stat trek. the transporter turned a person into 2 people. each focused on diff sides of their personality. it also happened to inanimate objects.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:18:11 No.648350860 Report

Quoted By: >>648351755

>>648350592
If you want to know my actual thoughts:
>>648350281

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:18:28 No.648350896 Report

Quoted By:

>>648345698
deep copy of an object anon

did you fail java101 or something

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:21:46 No.648351285 Report

Quoted By: >>648352051 >>648356104

>>648350592
the condition is that if I appeared on your house right now with a million dollars case and asked you to step on my brand new teleporter for it, would you do it? cuz you might as well be leaving a million dollars to your newly born twin brother.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:22:07 No.648351332 Report

Quoted By:

actually, this would be a funny twist in a fictional story, where people use a "teleporter" that is pretty much just a cloning machine that destroys the original copy to avoid confusion and people going insane after knowing that in fact they're dead long time ago and that they're a copy of a copy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:25:26 No.648351755 Report

Quoted By: >>648352627

>>648350860
Well you can make it a meaningful concept with a slight tweak of that idea, in the sense that it becomes really relevant to OP's question at least.

Suppose that something goes wrong and the person who steps into the teleporter only gets partially disassembled, half of the original atoms and nerve impulses remain, half are moved to a new location. In both locations the other half is a reconstructed, digitally stored copy.

Now you have two distinct, individual actors, both self-aware, both thinking that they are the original "you," both consisting of half of the original you. Neither have had an unbroken chain of consciousness, or self-awareness or whatever you want to call it.

I sort of agree with you, I think, that neither person really is "you" because consciousness isn't really much of a thing in the first place.

But it's pertinent to OP's question about checking if the post-teleportation you is just a copy.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:28:07 No.648352051 Report

Quoted By:

>>648351285
I don't know because while my rational side tells me to do it, it's really hard to let go of the idea that "you" is more than just the sum of the parts.

If it worked as a physical transfer of my atoms and impulses, I'd do it. If it was a disassembly and transfer of data, a digital transportation that just rebuilt my data at the end-point, I'd probably not.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:28:12 No.648352060 Report

Quoted By:

existentialcomics.com/comic/1

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:28:50 No.648352142 Report

Quoted By:

If the user A could feel himself being moved through time and space into pod B or at least part of that process then he is moved and still alive, if he appears instantaneously with no knowledge of the transfer than he is deaded.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:29:53 No.648352266 Report

Quoted By:

Metal things like earrings

I saw this on a TV show but I don't remember which one.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:31:09 No.648352417 Report

Quoted By: >>648352730

Rolling for 17-21

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:32:51 No.648352627 Report

Quoted By:

>>648351755
That case is simply a fringe case of the weirdness that is the concept of the "self".
Who is "me"? To an outside observer both appear psychologically identical. To both the individual who walked out of the teleporter and who remained in the first teleporter, both vividly remember stepping into the teleporter and could recount a continuous account of the events which led them there.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:33:46 No.648352730 Report

Quoted By:

>>648352417
You're in the wrong thread but nice get, anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:34:10 No.648352787 Report

Quoted By: >>648352976

From efficiency point of view, it's far easier to just scan a person, and reconstruct him elsewhere by consuming the needed matter that is in that place instead of actually transferring matter via some warmhole or other magic, i mean if you surgically cut a person then put him back together the exact way he was (at a cell lever) he will be still be dead, the body won't survive high gravity/warping physics, even if you do it in a split second, he will still be dead

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:35:43 No.648352976 Report

Quoted By: >>648353156

>>648352787
>warmhole
nice

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:36:47 No.648353082 Report

Quoted By:

>>648345698
I think about this to often. In sci-fi, you die, your conscience gets put in another body? Maybe i live again, but the conscience I am right now dies. And the new one just thinks they are the old me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:37:24 No.648353156 Report

Quoted By: >>648353540

>>648352976
>nitpicking typos
it could be indeed warm tho :^)

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:40:34 No.648353540 Report

Quoted By:

>>648353156
I'm not nitpicking. I'm just thinking about how nice it would be to disintegrate and have all my atoms fly into a nice warm vagina.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:42:21 No.648353752 Report

Quoted By: >>648354012 >>648361586

>>648345698
Easy mode.

Assuming you have the technology to construct a "Pod A" and a "Pod B" that infers that you have the ability to also construct a "Pod C"

Set up the protocol so that w/e is teleported from pod a will be distributed evenly to pod B and C.

If you receive 2 halves of a person. They are the original. If you receive 2 persons. You have a clone.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:44:31 No.648354012 Report

Quoted By: >>648354220

>>648353752
what if I receive two halves of a clone?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:46:13 No.648354217 Report

Quoted By: >>648354404

its not the same anon. the teleportation involves the process of reconstruction of anons original body. so its obvious that our anon passed away in the eternity of time.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:46:14 No.648354220 Report

Quoted By:

>>648354012
You would need to have a created said clone, before you could destroy the clone.

the person that is in 2 halves is the original that stepped into the pod. You can't create a clone and then rip the clone in half while teleporting,

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:46:23 No.648354238 Report

Quoted By:

well I guess I got the answer I was searching for: it's impossible

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:47:44 No.648354404 Report

Quoted By: >>648355026 >>648355209

>>648354217
without any more details or any more information added. You can't actually get an answer for this because you can obviously keep saying well what if. well what if. but that doesn't work if you don't have any actual data to refute.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:52:45 No.648355025 Report

Quoted By: >>648356104

The real question isn't whether or not the person on pod b should be classified as a clone, the question is whether or not it would make a difference. If he appeared the same to the bystanders and he himself didn't experience any chance either, then why should it matter? And why would anything have changed? It might as well be the same person. Why care about the original copy?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:52:45 No.648355026 Report

Quoted By:

>>648354404
depending on the technology really, if all you can do is copy aka like in digital media, there is no original copy anymore, if you can actually bend the universe, then yeah you may get a perfect teleportation

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:54:30 No.648355209 Report

Quoted By: >>648355515

>>648354404
but i never said a what if question. the teleportation reconstructs anons original body and that already implies that the other one must be a clone. the room and the time is completly different from anons original state so its 100% a copy

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:54:46 No.648355244 Report

Quoted By:

>>648345698

Memory check and physical exam. Even if hes something else, as long as its an exact copy hes fine.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:57:00 No.648355515 Report

Quoted By: >>648355571

>>648355209
No no, See you said Disappears. Then reappears. You did not say Reconstructs. by saying reconstructs you are answering your own question. Yes it is a clone. this is simple shit. way to get so distracted your steered away from your OP

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 15:57:29 No.648355571 Report

Quoted By:

>>648355515
you steered away*

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:00:50 No.648355913 Report

Quoted By:

>>648345698
tldr; OP's been paying a little to much attention to SOMA

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:02:28 No.648356104 Report

Quoted By: >>648356361 >>648358167

>>648355025
see this post >>648351285
would you take the million dollars?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:04:35 No.648356361 Report

Quoted By: >>648356840 >>648362262

>>648356104
would you be willing to let a you start completely fresh with a million dollars from the exact moment you just left off with everything including memories exactly the same. Yes. why not. I think I deserve to give a possible me a better life even if it means I personally dont get to enjoy it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:08:48 No.648356840 Report

Quoted By: >>648357006

>>648356361
>why not
because you died in the process

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:10:15 No.648357006 Report

Quoted By: >>648357298

>>648356840
and. Not like you're going to miss that million dollars now that you are suddenly dead without realizing it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:12:45 No.648357298 Report

Quoted By: >>648358006

>>648357006
but you are aware that you may not come back on the pod 'b'
it's not much different from 'would you let someone shoot you dead if they offered to donate a million bucks to someone in your family?'

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:12:55 No.648357320 Report

Quoted By:

>Implying teleportation could disassemble and re-organize the constant flow stream of pulses of signals that is flowing through us in order to keep the "self".

Unless the teleporter literally invades and instantly kills our brain before teleporting us, and then revives us after the teleportation it will never work 100%. Perhaps, 99%, perhaps 42% but never 100% without killing the physical brain then future-teching it and curing it again.
NEVER EVER WORK.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:18:42 No.648358006 Report

Quoted By: >>648358993

>>648357298
did I not make it apparent I am aware that your specific consciousness may not come out on the other side. BUT AN EXACT COPY OF YOURSELF DOES. Yes I know this means I ME MYSELF h/e you want to put it is dead. and that the new one is just a copied existance of me. But with him having memories of exactly what happened. He does not know that original of Himself just died. He is still me. Living with now an extra million. even though I am now dead. the copy that is ME is still alive. Yes I would give him a million dollars.

Giving it to a family member is completely different. Just go buy soma it's like 30$ on the Playstation market and steam. It explains literally all of this.

Anonymous

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Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:19:51 No.648358125 Report

Quoted By:

>>648346710
Clones share genetic identities but can have different memories and experiences. What we have in this case is a double. Same memories. Same exact genetics... Then there are two Rikers.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:20:13 No.648358167 Report

Quoted By:

>>648356104
Sure, I don't think the copy would be any different anyway. I don't think of memory as a continuous thing. I change all the time, I'm a new person now compared to a split second ago. My neurons are changing while I'm typing this. Doesn't matter if their location changed as well.

That being said I don't really need a million, a simple ice cream would've convinced me just as well.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:22:56 No.648358457 Report

Quoted By:

>>648347371
But this is assuming we understand or know what consciousness is. If my point of view, my consciousness, is simply a result of the particles that I am made of being arranged in the exact way that they are arranged, then were they to be disassembled and reassembled in the exact same way wouldn't the same consciousness resume once assembled?

If you answer no to this, then consciousness must be something metaphysical. Something immaterial. Something separate from our bodies/brains.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:25:56 No.648358797 Report

Quoted By:

JUST GO BUY SOMA PEOPLE.

IT'LL TAKE YOU LIKE 6 HOURS TO BEAT. IT EXPLAINS EVERY. SINGLE. THING. You guys are talking about. It is literally the premise of the fucking game.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:26:25 No.648358858 Report

Quoted By: >>648362184

This thread should be archived. I had no idea there were this many intelligent people on /b/

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:27:33 No.648358993 Report

Quoted By: >>648359708

>>648358006
Yeah, I get that you understand, I'm baffled by your position of giving your life away in favor of a clone.
An exact copy of oneself is just somebody else, if anything I'd classify the clone as way below family and even friends. I never interacted with that person and never will, why should he be rewarded with money that costed me my life? because he looks and acts like me? lol fuck that clone, put that ass to work if he wants money

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:34:00 No.648359708 Report

Quoted By: >>648360014 >>648360051 >>648360328

>>648358993
See, You are just selfish because you don't understand. What you see as just a clone is actually you. It's you with all of your memories, private, sad, happy, anger, all of it. he cares about everyone in your life that you do at the exact moment, The clone is literally you.
The best part of it all though, is
Since this is teleportation we are talking about and not just a cloning process, The old you disappears. Poof. gone. no more. Like he was never actually there. But he was. But the new you. The clone you. (Which is not the same consciousness obviously the REAL you is dead) but this clone you, they don't know that. His memories continue from exactly where yours left off. He is you. Everything he knows is everything you were. He will literally believe with all of his heart that he is you. Because It's a you that doesn't realize it just died. he will do everything in life. Exactly as you would if you were handed that money. because with all of his conscious he thinks he is you. and No one can tell him otherwise because the original you is gone.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:36:35 No.648360014 Report

Quoted By:

>>648359708
Yeah, he may be even nicer than the original me, but I'm still dead. And I don't see dead people getting pussy around here.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:36:54 No.648360051 Report

Quoted By: >>648360812

>>648359708
and not to make it sound totally depressing. the original question also poses the possibility that you(original) ends up in pod b. It's a 50/50 shot.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:39:25 No.648360328 Report

Quoted By: >>648360812

>>648359708
>Which is not the same consciousness obviously the REAL you is dead
Can you defend this claim? Calling it obvious is not an argument.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:43:18 No.648360737 Report

Quoted By:

bump pls don't die

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:43:50 No.648360812 Report

Quoted By: >>648361223 >>648361502 >>648366796

>>648360328
refer to>>648360051

Basically with the process of teleportation. with the possibility of it being a clone instead of the original, You're consciousness has a 50/50 shot of 1 of 2 things happening. either it
A
>Travels through with the teleportation process and a newly created you is made with you're consciousness put inside of the copy.
or B
>The copy is created with it's own set of copied consciousness and you stay in the original pod with your original body. (Which disappears because this is teleporting we're talking about, not just straight cloning.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:47:46 No.648361223 Report

Quoted By: >>648361586 >>648362459

>>648360812
This is not an argument, though. This is a conclusion you have drawn without providing any reasoning.

If all of the particles that constitute "you" were disassembled and then reassembled in exactly the same way, would your point of view, your first-person perspective, your consciousness, resume? Or would it not?
This is the question. You seem to be saying it would not.
So, I ask you, what is your reasoning?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:50:27 No.648361502 Report

Quoted By:

>>648360812
>your consciousness put inside of the copy
So according to you conciousness is a separate thing that can be moved around?

Makes sense.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:51:15 No.648361586 Report

Quoted By: >>648362049 >>648362364 >>648366796

>>648361223
if you refer to my earlier post

>>648353752
Idk how I am supposed to answer you're question when we are talking about theoretical bullshit that doesn't have any actual data to be able to draw actual conclusions from. You want answers for something that isn't real.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:55:18 No.648362049 Report

Quoted By: >>648362262 >>648362459

>>648361586
>if you refer to my earlier post
Okay, never mind. You're apparently a moron.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:56:40 No.648362184 Report

Quoted By:

>>648358858
After reading more of these posts, I take this back. You guys are a bunch of retards who think you're geniuses.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO wayyy.jpg, 32KiB, 617x346

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:57:22 No.648362262 Report

Quoted By: >>648362701 >>648366796

>>648362049
or you don't know how to read. 752 is me. and then I picked up at >>648356361
as well. If you don't want to take the time to actually read the thread, but want hard facts and standing evidence for something that is completely theoretical with our current technology then there is nothing I can tell you other than. too bad. Thats it bud.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:58:12 No.648362364 Report

Quoted By:

>>648361586
>if you refer to my earlier post
The fact that you think your earlier post(s) address his question just shows that you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 16:59:01 No.648362459 Report

Quoted By: >>648362701 >>648366796

>>648362049
O and Just to say fuck you a little bit more.>>648361223
You totally misunderstood me with this one. I was going to overlook it at first, But apparently you're just an ass.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:01:17 No.648362701 Report

Quoted By: >>648362833

>>648362262
>>648362459
>still not understanding what the fuck is going on

My question was so simple. I don't understand why the fuck you got so confused about it. You're talking like I asked it in a different language.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:02:25 No.648362833 Report

Quoted By: >>648363245 >>648363601 >>648366796 >>648366943

>>648362701
>If all of the particles that constitute "you" were disassembled and then reassembled in exactly the same way, would your point of view, your first-person perspective, your consciousness, resume? Or would it not?
>This is the question. You seem to be saying it would not.
>So, I ask you, what is your reasoning?
No, you don't realize. You are the one who did not understand anything I said for probably about 4 post straight.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:05:57 No.648363245 Report

Quoted By: >>648363533 >>648365276

>>648362833
Copying and pasting what I said doesn't prove you understand it, bud. But apparently you're literally too dumb to have a conversation with, let alone argue with, so I'm out.

If you feel like proving you aren't retarded by finally answering my extremely simple question, feel free, but anything else will not receive a response from me.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:08:23 No.648363533 Report

Quoted By: >>648363601 >>648363965 >>648364076 >>648365276 >>648366796 >>648366943

>>648363245
What exactly did you not understand then, I'll explain it to you through meticulous hand-holding.
>I need a cigarette before we start.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:08:55 No.648363601 Report

Quoted By:

>>648362833
>>648363533
double 33 dubs in a row. check um

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1438553613862.jpg, 52KiB, 480x557

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:11:51 No.648363965 Report

Quoted By: >>648364311 >>648365276

>>648363533
bro...youre embarassing yourself

just stop

>trying to hide your stupidity by calling other people stupid

he asked you a simple fucking question and all youve done is show that youre too dumb to get it

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:12:56 No.648364076 Report

Quoted By: >>648364311 >>648364916 >>648365276

>>648363533
holy shit you're an idiot. every post you make is literally "I know you are but what am I?" like a fucking 4 year old

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO header.jpg, 33KiB, 460x215

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:14:45 No.648364269 Report

Quoted By:

>Play SOMA
>Get to part where you upload mind in another body
>mind never uploads, just copies
>WTF AM I SUPPOSED TO DO ABOUT MY BROself???

this game man got all my feels for these kind of questions.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:15:05 No.648364311 Report

Quoted By: >>648364748 >>648364916 >>648366796

>>648364076
>>648363965
Alrighty then I'll just stop if you are not going to answer what you did not understand.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1443795404199.jpg, 13KiB, 373x341

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:19:17 No.648364748 Report

Quoted By: >>648365132

>>648364311
you didn't ask me anything you massive retard

I cant believe this fuckin faggot

you have got to be a troll

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:20:54 No.648364916 Report

Quoted By: >>648365132 >>648365276

>>648364311
idk about the other guy but this>>648364076 is the only comment I have made to you, and you didn't ask me shit

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:22:42 No.648365132 Report

Quoted By: >>648365429 >>648365533

>>648364748
>>648364916
Just give up. I'm fairly certain he thinks you're both me. This is just further proof that he's a moron.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:24:05 No.648365276 Report

Quoted By: >>648365533 >>648366000 >>648366796

>>648364916
well there is the misinterpretation of an anonymous board. I was talking to
>>648363245
with >>648363533
as my reply.

I was only met with >>648363965
and >>648364076
So i assumed one of you two were
>>648363245

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:25:31 No.648365429 Report

Quoted By:

>>648365132
and there you have it.

Since it seems like any civil conversation is out the window now, I am going to just leave now though. was fun while it lasted I guess

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:26:26 No.648365533 Report

Quoted By: >>648366259

>>648365132
>>648365276
See this is why we need ID's back.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:28:02 No.648365733 Report

Quoted By:

>>648345698

>wants a smart answer
>asks a stupid question

get your shit together anon

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:29:02 No.648365866 Report

Quoted By:

>>648347243
This is a strong stance which doesn't often backfire too much.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO nope.jpg, 126KiB, 714x287

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:29:58 No.648366000 Report

Quoted By:

>>648365276

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:30:50 No.648366119 Report

Quoted By:

>>648345698
Does it really matter if anon is just a copy?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:31:52 No.648366259 Report

Quoted By:

>>648365533
The conversation never would have come to this if the idiot had just answered my extremely simple question instead of trying to distract from the fact that he's retarded by arguing about nothing.

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1420381753013.jpg, 181KiB, 720x707

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:36:09 No.648366796 Report

Quoted By:

>>648360812
>>648361586
>>648362262
>>648362459
>>648362833
>>648363533
>>648364311
>>648365276
This fuckin guy

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:37:11 No.648366943 Report

Quoted By:

>>648362833
>>648363533
thsi has to be a troll

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:38:15 No.648367089 Report

Quoted By: >>648367490 >>648367693

Even if the anatomy was the same, the brain signals that were accruing would have stopped, so the clone might have memory loss or disorientation

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:41:36 No.648367490 Report

Quoted By:

>>648367089
>brain signals that were accruing would have stopped, so the clone might have memory loss or disorientation
One of the most intelligent things anybody has said here.
But I'm assuming the process would be instantaneous (or nearly), so I doubt it would have much of an effect in that case. People have been brain dead for a lot longer and been revived with no damage, correct?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:43:07 No.648367693 Report

Quoted By: >>648367896 >>648368018 >>648368122 >>648368401

>>648367089
Why would the brain signals stop? The neurotransmitters would get teleported as well, no?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:44:25 No.648367896 Report

Quoted By:

>>648367693
and ions

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:45:20 No.648368018 Report

Quoted By: >>648368142 >>648368471

>>648367693
Teleporting matter is one thing, but the electrical signals that were occurring when teleportation happened would be left behind

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:46:03 No.648368122 Report

Quoted By:

>>648367693
I think anon was assuming the process wouldn't be instant. If it wasn't, then there would be a brief period in which the signals would stop, but it wouldn't be enough to have a negative effect.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:46:08 No.648368136 Report

Quoted By: >>648368340

>>648345698
If it's the same, why does it matter?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:46:12 No.648368142 Report

Quoted By: >>648368426

>>648368018
why?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:47:46 No.648368340 Report

Quoted By: >>648368907

>>648368136
Imagine that the person being teleported is you.

The real question is: If all of the particles that constitute "you" were disassembled and then reassembled in exactly the same way, would your point of view, your first-person perspective, your consciousness, resume in the reconstituted body? Or would it not? And why?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:48:18 No.648368401 Report

Quoted By: >>648369657

>>648367693
The problem there(and in travelling in general, even nowadays like the slight disorientation that you get when you travel to europe from the us or vice versa) is that the transmission of elecric signals heavily relies on the earths magnetic field, since the magnitude of the signals are so miniscule.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:48:32 No.648368426 Report

Quoted By:

>>648368142
Well energy must have a medium to travel, and since the matter that it was traveling on was suspended for an instance in time, it would vanish

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:48:54 No.648368471 Report

Quoted By: >>648368754

>>648368018
the electrical signals are matter though

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 1442632578083.gif, 1MiB, 392x400

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:50:59 No.648368754 Report

Quoted By:

>>648368471
Matter and energy are two different things

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:52:11 No.648368907 Report

Quoted By: >>648369324

>>648368340
i don't see why it wouldn't?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 11201860_10156119946915529_39543 (...).jpg, 8KiB, 280x200

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:55:35 No.648369324 Report

Quoted By: >>648369654

>>648368907
Great argument. You've convinced me.

Stop the presses, this guy cracked it.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:57:49 No.648369654 Report

Quoted By: >>648369929

>>648369324
i'm just trying to understand why is that even a question in the first place, no need to be a sarcastic asshole

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:57:51 No.648369657 Report

Quoted By: >>648370101 >>648370845

>>648368401
Wait, so if you were to lose your electrical signalling, wouldn't that mean you'd lose all of your muscular tension as well? And fall to the floor with a heart attack?

Anonymous

View Same Google ImgOps iqdb SauceNAO 11891106_10205192202587986_24431 (...).jpg, 8KiB, 225x225

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 17:59:39 No.648369929 Report

Quoted By:

>>648369654
Lighten up, guy

It's a question about the nature of consciousness.

Do you believe consciousness is separate from the brain (for example, the result of having an immaterial self or soul), or do you believe consciousness is purely physical?

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:00:49 No.648370101 Report

Quoted By: >>648370967

>>648369657
Probably

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:04:14 No.648370605 Report

Quoted By:

bump

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:04:29 No.648370649 Report

Quoted By:

>>648347386
Memories are stored by reforming the synapses of the brain, and that physical differentiation would be present in an exact reassembly

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:05:44 No.648370845 Report

Quoted By:

>>648369657
In short, no. When we talk about teleporting in the sense of analyze, deconstruct at location1, reconstruct at location2 the state of each and every atom would be saved and transferred so an exact replica from location1 is made, and thusly the single ions would just react in the same way like they did before.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:06:24 No.648370967 Report

Quoted By:

>>648370101
Sounds like fun. I think I'll wait with teleportation until they figured out a way to bypass this slight malfunction though.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:07:45 No.648371190 Report

Quoted By:

>>648346790
ask them to think about something and if they can keep the train of thought going through the process, it's the same person from pod A. otherwise, it's a very good duplicate.

Anonymous

Anonymous Sun 25 Oct 2015 18:09:37 No.648371460 Report

Quoted By:

Your atoms are replaced every year or so, scattering someone's atoms then reassembling them would have no effect on the person.

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